Gordon Dowell Chairman
                                                                                                 A. W. Cobbet t Vice Chairman
                                                                                                 A. E. Barnes Secretary
                                                                                                 Ms. P. Sandford Treasurer
                                                                                                 Mrs. O. Holman Minutes Secretary

                                                                                                David Ashton Crawley Pensioners’ Action Group
                                                                                                Derrick Frost USDAW Mid-Sussex
                                                                                                Richard Sharp Old Southeronians
                                                                                                Terry Reilly Mid-Sussex OPC
                                                                                                Sylvia Green Unison SE Region
                                                                                                James Greed TSSA - Brighton
                                                                                                R. Walker TGWU - Eastbourne

Apologies were received from Mrs. J. Shaw

The Chairman, Gordon Dowell welcomed the affiliates to the meeting and reminded the meeting that Mr. Frank Cooper, President of the NPC was due to attend for Item 6 in order to report back to the Committee the reasons for the non-acceptance of the motion put forward by the Old Southeronians which had been agreed by SENPeC.

After some discussion the Minutes of the above meeting were agreed as a true record. Proposed: Derrick Frost Seconded by Richard Sharp.

Richard Sharp asked for clarification re the item on Council Tax. Terry Reilly responded by saying that West Sussex Council had stated that the Council Tax Grant had been reduced by the Government which would result in drastic shortages in facilities.

An approach had been made regarding the EDM 658 to be signed by Nigel Waterson M.P. due to his position as Shadow Pensions Secretary and he had stated that he

was unable to sign the EDM although he would continue to support it..

Gordon Dowell said that he had not received any correspondence. However he reiterated that both he and the Secretary had attended the NPC on 15 November

2007 and met with the Officers and the question of the Pensioners Auditor was raised and the question was asked why the matter was still outstanding.

This was due to a NPC Pensions meeting not being held during 2007 and a Pensions Meeting had been arranged for 10 January 2008 to which Mr. Cobbett had been invited to attend. However at the National Council meeting on the same day he had asked for a copy of the Minutes but to date nothing had been received. It had been suggested by Mr. N. Duncan-Jordan that Mr. Cobbett should write another letter to NPC so that the issue could be discussed.

Mr. Cobbett felt that the NPC were ignoring his efforts. It appeared that if they had Ministers for Children, Families etc. surely there should be a Minister for the Elderly? Mr. Cobbett was advised to raise those questions with Mr. Cooper.

Miss Barnes reported that on 04 February 2008 she had written to all the affiliate Organisations informing them that Steve Fagan and Richard Sharp had resigned their positions on SENPeC and the Chairman and herself had been duly elected to take up those positions.

Eight responses had been received with updated details of new secretaries, new addresses, phone nos. and e-mails. Two affiliates said that they no longer wished to be affiliates of SENPeC.

On the 19 February 2008 - NPC Transport Meeting

A Mr. Martin Wells of the Concessionary Fares Division and a Miss Caroline Green Senior Policy Consultant GLA reported that problems were experienced with the Local Authorities and the Bus Companies although having been given the finance by Government to bring in free travel for pensioners, in certain areas they were being thwarted by complaints that the finance was inadequate so an extra £212m was given which covered 291 Travel Concession Authorities to issue passes, pay Local Unitary Authorities, District Councils negotiating with bus companies and at County Council level.

The problem was the use of an old formulae which was very complicated and did not relate to current situations 28 FEBRUARY 2008 - Mrs. O. Holman and I attended a meeting of MSOPC copy of the invitation circulated to the meeting. A £9,000 grant had been given to MSOPC from the Lottery Fund..

13 MARCH 2008 - NPC Executive Meeting

I had been informed that the Motion put forward by Richard Sharp was due to be discussed at this meeting. I attended in order to propose the Motion and was told by the President Mr. F. Cooper that he was not prepared to accept the motion because it was a constitutional matter. I responded by saying that as a matter of courtesy I should have been informed in advance as it could have saved me an unnecessary journey.

Subsequently Mr. Cooper said that he was prepared to attend our next meeting in order to give the reasons for that decision.

I agreed to this proposal on behalf of SENPeC and I wrote to Mr. Cooper with date and time of attendance.

There was also a proposal from the biennial meeting that the affiliation fees should be increased by 10p per member. The Treasurer was in favour but unfortunately it was deferred for six months.

18 MARCH 2008 - Regional Secretaries meeting

I attended and some of the Regional Secretaries were annoyed with how long it was taking to get anything done by the Government and were obviously frustrated. However the Centenary issues were progressing and the NPC had received some financial support from the T.U‘s.

19 MARCH 2008 - Crawley Pensioners’ Action Group I attended the above meeting which included many of the affiliates and also Mr. N. Duncan-Jordan of the NPC gave a talk.

Miss Barnes was going to write to the TUC on behalf of Mrs. J. Shaw and her ongoing argument for pensions for widows of teachers. She personally felt that The Trade Unions should have supported widows and orphans. There had been an article in the Daily Telegraph regarding the update of Teachers pensions and that was sent to Mrs. Shaw. It now appears that dependants will be given a pension but subject to the agreement of the pension fund. However Mrs. Shaw was arguing her case on the lines of discrimination and equality.

Miss Barnes then handed out leaflets on the following subjects, Changes in Tax Bands, Inheritance Tax, VAT costs reduction for the elderly. Mr. Cobbett said that he had attended the meeting at Crawley where he raised the question of Pensioners Auditor and he felt that Mr. N. Duncan-Jordan was off-hand When he raised the question of Pensioners Auditor.

Miss Barnes responded that she along with others from the Committee had attended that particular meeting and the response from Mr. N. Duncan-Jordan was that because there were a lot of other important issues going on at the present time, the Pensioners Auditor issue could not take priority.

Miss Barnes was thanked for her report.

Mr. Cooper was welcomed to the meeting by the Chairman. Mr. Cooper thanked the SENPeC Committee for the opportunity. With regard to the motion that had been put forward by SENPeC for a change to the current postholders, he did give the Executive Committee of the NPC an opportunity to challenge his ruling, which was not forthcoming. The motion was a constitutional matter and could only be raised at the Biennial conference, unless a case was made at the Executive Council for a special biennial conference. No one at that meeting challenged his ruling.

Mr. Cooper continued that the abolition of the 10p tax band had caused a lot of hardship. The MP Frank Field had fought the issue in addition to Pensioners’ Groups and Trade Unionists. There would be a resolution at the Biennial Conference.

With reference to the Pensioners Auditor, put forward by Mr. Cobbett the question that had to be asked was who would employ this individual, who would pay his salary. It was not just the case of employing an Auditor he would need a whole Department to carry out the remit and if organised by the Government, where would the independence lie? The NPC could not afford to employ such a department.

Mr. Cobbett asked why there could not be an Ombudsman for Pensioners if the Pensioners’ Auditor proposal was rejected. There were Ministers for Children and Families, Housing etc..

Mr. Terry Reilly suggested that perhaps the title “Pensioners’ Auditor” should be changed to cover other aspects that related to pensioners. The Secretary said that she agreed with what Terry Reilly had said and felt that the current title was far too restrictive.

Ms. Sylvia Green said that it was not just a case for a pensioners auditor there were all sorts of issues affecting everyone of all ages which related to finance, health housing. and pensions.

Richard Sharp asked if people were not allowed to challenge the NPC and change a ruling there could be a problem. Since Mr. Cooper was elected as President of NPC some three years ago, 36 small Pensioners’ groups had started and the 14 large Unions had 100,000 members. The President was asked if the motion from SENPeC had been worded more succinctly would it have been accepted.

Mr. Cooper said no offence was taken, SENPeC had every right to make suggestions, but at this moment in time It was not constitutionally appropriate. Currently there were major problems in the country, falling bankrates, loss of homes due to people unable to pay their mortgages, and also hardship amongst the 11 million pensioners and low wage earners.. Also there was still full employment.

Richard Sharp said that if the motion was a biennial issue he thought that by this Region putting forward the motion to the National Executive they could have asked for remittal promulgate and then send the motion to all the regions. An input that the National Executive could perhaps have viewed as a policy change and ruled it

out of order. Mr. Cooper responded by saying that he had asked at least twice if anyone wanted to challenge his ruling and there was no response.

Mr. Sharp said that he had hoped the President would have asked for remittal. Mr. Cooper responded by saying that he was not necessarily opposed to the

present motion from the Old Southeronians and as it was, it would be listed for the biennial conference in 2009.

It was felt by the Committee that an increase in Basic State Pension was essential. However the NPC was improving in its public relations exercise and needed to continue. The question of whether an alternative Government was raised but a Conservative MP had said that the N.I surplus fund did not exist whilst a Lib-Dem MP believed that it was foolish to make promises. In response to a question

Mr. Cooper said that the restoration of the earnings link in 2012 was a firm date for the proposed increase the actual running costs would be in the region of £1b to £2b.

Mr. D. Ashton pointed out that when Labour came into power in 1997 £5b pounds was removed from Occupational Pension Funds on an annual basis and this had the abortive effect of several Occupational pension schemes having to close which resulted in loss of pensions for thousands of people.

The Minute Secretary asked Mr. Cooper to remind any friends in Government that Pensioners held the largest percentage of the present electorate and usually turned up to vote.

The President issued copies of his letter from H.M. Treasury, signed by the Rt.Hon Jane Kennedy MP, regarding uses of the National Insurance Fund (from N.I.Contributions with the majority spent on State Pensions.) NCIs were designed to secure sound public finances. When there was a surplus it was invested and only the interest was spent as the original surplus funding was ring-fenced.

In reply to NPC’s case for a substantial increase in BSP and abolition of means-testing, the Minister said “there was no pensioner poverty” He also said that there was no funding to increase the 25pence for over eighties or Christmas Bonus.

The Chairman thanked Mr. Cooper for attending the SENPeC Committee in order to speak to the affiliates and for answering their questions and his candid comments.

Mr. Cooper was given a round of applause. Mr. Cooper then left the meeting.

The Treasurer Peggy Sandford reported that she had received the following affiliations:

RECEIPTS EXPENDITURE

Affiliates 13 @ £15 £195 NPC Jan. £5

Affiliates 1 @ £5 5 Secretary (4) 36.10

Arrears 2007 Affiliation 5 Travel

Donation 15 Stationery 2.78

======== ======

£220.00 £43.88

EXCESS £176.12

The current financial figure of the balance as at 28 April 2008 stood at

£1,106.48. Ms. Sandford said that if the proposed increase in affiliates fees had been agreed she thought that the NPC might have given the Regions some financial assistance.

Baroness Neuberger had been campaigning on behalf of pensioners. There had been a report in Saga magazine and in the Daily Mail and also on television.

The Treasurer was thanked for her report.

Gordon Dowell reminded the Committee of the NPC Regional Lobby to be held in London on 22 October 2008 For all those attending the NPC Blackpool he wished them all a safe journey and hoped to see them there.

On the question of low paid workers Derrick Frost said that USDAW had members who were only paid £5,000 p.a.The Secretary mentioned that to be eligible for Dial-A-Ride membership you must have a permanent or long-term disability which severely restricts your ability to use

Public transport services. The website address was: www.fl.gov.uk/gettingaround/1187 　

After general discussion it was agreed that the motion from the Old Southeronions would be rephrased and resubmitted to the NPC.

14 July 2008 at 11.a.m. for 11.30 NPC Offices, Old Street.

There being no further business the meeting closed at 2.00 p.m.